Nirvana chat with Charles Cross

3rd & 7 37yd

This morning John Richards followed the Beatles' "If I Fell" with Nirvana's "Come As You Are," which I thought was brilliant, just in terms of the timbre of the voices. But it made me wonder, will Nirvana's songs live as long as the Beatles songbook? They' endured more than 20 years, are they for all time?

by Paul de Barros 4/4/2014 7:23:06 PM
Well, Paul, they were nominated for a Grammy this year (albeit for being "sampled" by Jay-Z...)

by Brian Gallagher 4/4/2014 7:24:01 PM
Haha! Yes, that was one of the oddest Grammy noms of all time!

by Paul de Barros 4/4/2014 7:24:44 PM
Paul: Yes. They will live that long. But I certainly think in 20 years, the myth, the celebrity of Kurt, will have shifted. The 30th anniversary won't have this kind of thing about it. Oddly, the 10th didn't either.

by Charles R. Cross 4/4/2014 7:25:01 PM
Wow, that's really a fascinating comment. What's the magic of 20?

by Paul de Barros 4/4/2014 7:25:58 PM
I'm not sure. In some ways with Elvis I also remember the 20th being bigger than the 10.

by Charles R. Cross 4/4/2014 7:28:09 PM
I was talking to a colleague yesterday about an early Nirvana show. It was a bar gig Nirvana did in Fairhaven/Bellingham, in which Kurt got really drunk, played really, really loud. The bar owner (a friend of my colleague) eventually pulled the plug on the band, kicked them out and didn't pay them. Have you heard that story Mr Cross?

by McAllister 4/4/2014 7:28:11 PM
Yes that was 11/23/88 - Speedy O'Tubbs Rhythmic Underground, Bellingham, WA

by Charles R. Cross 4/4/2014 7:29:07 PM
Charles, I just saw a documentary about Kathleen Hanna of Bikini Kill. I knew about the Riot Grrl Movement,but it was very interesting to see everyone in that scene intertwined.

by Charles, I just saw a... 4/4/2014 7:29:38 PM
Yes the Riot Grrl movement greatly affected Kurt. It changed his politics, and his view that music could be political. Before his time in Olympia he never wrote a song that was about anything political.

by Charles R. Cross 4/4/2014 7:30:00 PM
The gender issue is interesting. Larry Reid, who curates the Fantagraphics Gallery and presented Nirvana at the Center on Contemporary Art in 1989, remembers Nirvana audiences as predominantly female. Do you?

by Paul de Barros 4/4/2014 7:31:38 PM
Yeah, Charley, I was wondering about that. In the course of editing some of our Nirvana coverage, and doing some interviews, I've gotten the sense that some of the other bands -- Pearl Jam, etc. -- were seen as more "jock-ish."

by Brian Gallagher 4/4/2014 7:33:21 PM
I think there were more women in PJ's audience. Nirvana's audience at those early shows was predominantly male. Larry brought in a bit of an artier crowd to COCA so that was slightly different.

by Charles R. Cross 4/4/2014 7:34:41 PM
There are things out there still. That's all I can say.

by Charles R. Cross 4/4/2014 7:34:52 PM
Speaking of the anniversary, what are your thoughts on the "re-examination" of the case by police, the photos being released, and the instant, global reaction to it?

by Brian Gallagher 4/4/2014 7:36:19 PM
Is it true that everything has been released? are you aware of any songs that may still be out there. On the doc of Patty Schemel some stated that there were some boom box solo tapes out there...

by Charles, I just saw a... 4/4/2014 7:36:27 PM
chares I have read 3 of your books, Hendrix, cobain and zeppelin. i'm a big fan. I'm wondering what your take on the RR hall of fame is. while I think it started with good intentions, the fact that they add 5 bands per year forever is absurd in my mind. there simply are not enough great bands to induct 5 bands every year forever. case in point alex lifesons accpeptance speech last year.

by max 4/4/2014 7:38:32 PM
In Seattle here we know the Seattle police haven't exactly gotten the best press over the past couple of years. I honestly think part of that is their attempt to look more social media friendly (ie pot law dorrito bags this past summer). It was handled very poorly, and caused a big hub bub when none was needed. Essentialy they said, we know and knew what we were doing. But bringing attention to that was demeaning to Kurt (and the choice he made whatever you think of it morally, it was a choice), and ridiculous simply. It got so widely reported as that they had "reopened" the case when they hadn't. Pitiful.

by Charles R. Cross 4/4/2014 7:39:00 PM
Well here's my take on Chad Channing not getting in, pasted from a piece the Stranger did on me this week: Do you think Chad Channing should get inducted into the Hall of Fame with Nirvana?
Cross: Chad played on a third of Nirvana’s released tracks, and he’s the drummer on the “Love Buzz” single that qualifies the band to be inducted this year. Without that single, they wouldn’t be eligible for three more years. I think each band inducted in the Hall of Fame, be it Heart, Kiss, or Nirvana, should have the name of every single band member ever on that plaque on the wall in Cleveland. What’s lost by that? Two dollars more of engraving fees? That isn’t to say that everyone ever in the band should get to play, or speak at the induction itself, but they ought to be on stage somewhere. Let Krist and Dave take the mic, but let Pat Smear, and Chad, stand behind them as part of the band. The Hall of Fame was created to honor musicians of merit, not just to honor the band members who went on to became big stars.

by Charles R. Cross 4/4/2014 7:40:28 PM
And yes, the Hall has always been very political. It's absurd in a way. This year has been a mess with Nirvana and Kiss. BTW You will read my take on the story in the Times next week, a week from today in fact.

by Charles R. Cross 4/4/2014 7:41:29 PM
And thank you Max. I actually think my Hendrix book "Room Full of Mirrors" is my best work, but HTH is better known.

by Charles R. Cross 4/4/2014 7:43:03 PM
Charley, I've always been curious about how the rights to the music broke down after all the lawsuits were settled...The Jay-Z song made me think of that earlier this year.

by Brian Gallagher 4/4/2014 7:44:21 PM
Yes, Charles will be covering the Rock Hall Induction for The Seattle Times. Since the suicide has come up, I have question related to that. A lot of readers sent in memories of Kurt and Nirvana as giving them "hope" when they were gorwing up and feeling like outsiders. They could identify with Kurt. But the way Cobain chose to end his life seems like the antithesis of "hope." Full disclosure: I was the parent of 16-year-old at the time, who saw Nirvana at Roskilde, and I found the suicide upsetting, as a dad.

by Paul de Barros 4/4/2014 7:44:24 PM
Well, of course the suicide was upsetting. To dads, to all of us. But Kurt was only one of 30,000 people who took their own life that year in America. The rate keeps going up. I feel that talking about and trying to come up with solutions is the only way we can fight this scourge. If we pretend those thoughts don't come up for teens, or that mental health needs more attention, we will lose more lives.

by Charles R. Cross 4/4/2014 7:46:55 PM
Brian: Credit on the songs were broken down differently on different songs, so who controls what is very complicated to explain. ANd then Kurt went back and asked retroactively to have some of those credits shifted. That almost broke up the band — in a way it did. They continued on after that, but it was never the same. Money does change everything in music.

by Charles R. Cross 4/4/2014 7:48:31 PM
Interesting. I read an article in which Kurt addressed that songwriting thing. Do you think the band may have broken up at some point soon, if Kurt hadn't killed himself?

by Brian Gallagher 4/4/2014 7:49:33 PM
We always talk about Kurt when we talk about Nirvana, but to my ears Krist Novoselic's bass lines were a brilliant part of the mix. Do you hear it that way, too?

by Paul de Barros 4/4/2014 7:49:48 PM