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Hey Charles, we owe you an "R."

Most nonfiction books are the result of conversations between authors, agents, and editors, and this one was no different. My editor at Harper Collins asked me if there was anything else to say about Kurt Cobain, and at first I said no, because my previous biography had been complete. But as we began to talk about the impact he had on various aspects of culture, it seemed there was more to say. And in this instance, telling it in the first person allowed me to address points I couldn’t in the previous biography. I looked at several different ways he impacted culture, including music, fashion, addiction, suicide, and how Seattle and Aberdeen think of themselves.

Thanks, I may actually need those sunglasses today.

I think people forget that Nirvana, and "Grunge" was more of a reaction, than a "movement." We had a horrible music scene here in the mid-80s with few places for bands to play. Consequently they started to imagine a world outside of the club scene here, which was mostly cover bands. They made records. The truth is that is was because we had such a lame club scene, that many of the Sub Pop bands started to make their own style, in weird locales, like the Ditto Tavern, which held 60 people and had five manual typewriters for poets. That's where Grunge was born (or at least one of the places).

Yes, that makes perfect sense. The scene was pretty lame. Looking back, it feels like Nirvana and the whole scene that erupted was like a fulcrum between Old Seattle and New Seattle. Corporations like Microsoft and Starbucks were ushering in an era when Seattle would no longer be invisible to the rest of the country, but that sense of isolation that would soon disappear seemed to help nurture the bands here. Does that make sense to you?

Hard for people to realize there was actually a time when artists could afford loft space in Belltown! But that's the way it was when I got here in 1979.

Whenever I talk to people who were around at the time, they can't overemphasize how much of a shock the attention that came with Nirvana's (and all the other band's success) was.

Bosnian Rape Victim's Benefit at the Cow Palace in San Francisco. I drove all the way down there just to see that. It was when Kurt was falling apart in a way and yet still came on and did these tremendously powerful songs that felt so alive. I wasn't even officially on the list or anything; bought a scalped ticket outside the hall since I'd only decided to go early that morning.

that was to answer Skip's question there.

That's interesting. I mean, he did that Leadbelly cover as the last song on the Unplugged performance.

That's fascinating. Leadbelly and Woody Guthrie! Lots to listen to there, and, interestingly, many performers have turned to Guthrie since then.

I wonder, Charles, why do you think everyone was so focused on Mudhoney back then and couldn't see Nirvana's success coming? Even Bruce Pavitt, at Sub Pop, said Nirvana's success took him by surprise. Any thoughts?

Mudhoney in the early days were also a much better live band. Also Mudhoney had the pedigree that Nirvana never had -- the connections with other bands that had gotten attention in Seattle. Nirvana were considered hicks in contrast (and they were).
Finally, "Touch Me I'm Sick" is just a monster song.

How much do you think it had to do with Kurt being something of an outsider? I mean, to the rest of the world, he's from Seattle. But in Seattle, he's definitely from Aberdeen.

Yeah, I'd agree on that. I can remember seeing Nirvana play pretty badly, though it's heresy to say now!

Everyone in the scene knew each other, so they were associated. They were friendly. But Chris was on a slightly different side of things than Nirvana. Chris's then wife however, Susan Silver, had much to do with Nirvana getting a label deal.

This morning John Richards followed the Beatles' "If I Fell" with Nirvana's "Come As You Are," which I thought was brilliant, just in terms of the timbre of the voices. But it made me wonder, will Nirvana's songs live as long as the Beatles songbook? They' endured more than 20 years, are they for all time?

Haha! Yes, that was one of the oddest Grammy noms of all time!

Wow, that's really a fascinating comment. What's the magic of 20?

The gender issue is interesting. Larry Reid, who curates the Fantagraphics Gallery and presented Nirvana at the Center on Contemporary Art in 1989, remembers Nirvana audiences as predominantly female. Do you?